"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

[dibo]

I'm a little surprised nobody's talked about the boat sinking off Java:

SMH: Failure of Malaysia deal caused boat deaths: minister
Kirsty Needham
November 2, 2011 - 12:21PM

Immigration Minister Chris Bowen has directly linked the drowning of up to 27 asylum seekers yesterday with the collapse of the Malaysia refugee swap deal, and hit out at the Greens for making the "extraordinary" call to create safer pathways for refugees to come to Australia after the tragedy.

Mr Bowen said the Malaysia deal was designed to do "exactly" that, "creating safer pathways, increasing the humanitarian intake, taking more people out of places like Malaysia".

"For Senator [Sarah] Hanson-Young to say we need to create more safe pathways when her party, and she in particular, have been remorseless in opposing the Malaysia arrangement ... I just found breathtaking and extraordinary," Mr Bowen told ABC Radio today.

Senator Hanson-Young had urged the government to consider increasing its annual humanitarian intake.

"Safe pathways have to be at the cornerstone of any policy," she said

Mr Bowen said he had argued consistently that if the Malaysia deal was blocked, there would be more deaths at sea.

"I have never been more disappointed to be proven right," he said.

"This is a terrible tragedy but it is a fact that, when you have more boats coming to Australia, you will see more deaths. We didn't adopt the Malaysia arrangement because it was politically easy or it was convenient, quite the opposite. We adopted it because we knew that this was the sort of arrangement that was necessary to avoid more deaths at sea, and that's exactly what we've seen."

But he stopped short of openly blaming the opposition, which has refused to pass legislation to overcome the court ban on the Malaysia swap deal in Parliament.

Mr Bowen also said the arrival of another boat carrying 92 asylum seekers off Christmas Island yesterday, the sixth since the policy shift to onshore processing, showed there had been an "uptake of boat arrivals" since the Malaysia deal collapsed, which the government had also predicted.

Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison said the government could have its legislation clear Parliament if it accepted Coalition amendments.

But he refused to blame government policy for the drowning deaths.

"It is unhelpful to engage in that sort of rhetoric," he told ABC Radio, adding criminal people smugglers were to blame.

Mr Morrison said the "terrible tragedy" should not be used as political leverage by the government or anyone else.

- with AAP

SMH: Plea to Liberals: agree to swap deal
November 2, 2011 - 12:21PM


The federal government is urging the Coalition to reconsider its opposition to the Malaysia people-swap solution in light of the drowning deaths of asylum seekers en route to Australia.

But the opposition says the tragic event should not be used for political purposes.

At least seven people were confirmed dead late yesterday by Indonesian authorities, who said the vessel went down just hours after leaving from a port in Central Java.
Advertisement: Story continues below

The death toll was expected to rise with as many as 20 people still missing.

Immigration Minister Chris Bowen says the boat, which was well inside Indonesian waters, was clearly heading towards Australia.

He called on the opposition to support government legislation legalising offshore processing which would allow the Malaysian solution to proceed.

The government has put that legislation on hold pending sufficient backing in both houses of Parliament.

"The type of arrangement we negotiated with Malaysia is an effective deterrent," he told ABC Television, adding it could prevent "tragic deaths at sea".

"Until and unless we are able to implement that, we will see more boats arriving."

The Coalition insists that Malaysia be excluded from the list of third countries nominated for offshore processing because it is not a signatory to the UN refugee convention.

It wants the mothballed detention centre on Nauru reopened, a measure rejected by the government.

"Opening a Nauru detention centre by itself would provide no deterrent to getting on boats," Mr Bowen said.

Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison said the government could have its legislation clear Parliament if it accepted Coalition amendments.

But he refused to blame government policy for the drowning deaths.

"It is unhelpful to engage in that sort of rhetoric," he told ABC Radio, adding criminal people smugglers were to blame.

Mr Morrison said the "terrible tragedy" should not be used as political leverage by the government or anyone else.

I'm not thrilled with Bowen's line. He's right that the journey is the problem, and that we need to get people to not take the boat journey. Playing the blame game with corpses as pawns is f**king disgusting though. He could simply argue positively and strongly in favour of his case rather than pouring a bucket of shit over people.

Moral high ground - who needs it?

Anyway, it shows why a regional solution is important to try to prevent people taking the boat trip. Nobody from any party should think that it's a good idea for people to be hopping in fishing boats and hoping for the best.

 

[curious]

Then, if they're serious about preventing deaths, which btw i'm not too damn sure they give a f**k but perhaps rub their hands together for the opportunity to play politics with the bodies, then how about they, together with the corrupt political and justice system of Indonesia, get their 'I'd also drown my mum for political advantage' heads out of self serving arses and stop the criminals at the root of the cause.

The criminals at the very least are likely gaining assistance through having a blind eye turned but do we give a damn about doing anything?

Indonesia don't give a rats arse if they all drown, the libs don't give a shite either, but for a labor bashing tool they'd loath to be without and labor don't give a f**k about a bit of gurgling if it means they can use the tool to pander to the conservative vote in a race to see which can be the biggest f**king spineless, pricks in the country.

Thanks God for boat people and a dozen or more deaths every now and then. How would Australian politics survive without them?

I never dreamt i'd live to see the Australia we've become and obviously quite comfortable with.

 

[dibo]

i don't think labor's comfortable with the asylum seeker issue. i don't think labor's been comfortable with it since 1993, when they first introduced mandatory detention. it's always been the libs' issue because of the *utter bollocks* that conflates boat people with 'border protection', as if we're under some sort of existential threat from poor f**kers in fishing boats running for their lives.

 

[midfielder]

Given we have shifted topic for a bit ...I wish to share a small bit of my life's journey I had that kinda changed the way I look at life.

It was 1995 to 1999... two of my biggest clients went belly up in the early 90's in the recession we had to have, and I only had work for about three days a week in my practice... so I taught at University and TAFE for a while till practice re built...

TAFE ran then I am not sure if they do now, a special programs for newly arrived people all refuges, all in the country for less than 12 months. Every student was put tho a Advanced Diploma with heaps of English support, the students attended from what I recall 35 hours a week...

These students were very special, all were highly qualified in their own country, all had young familes, they were all very driven to suceed.

I taught these students basic computer skills, word excel power point and Australian Tax... everyone of these students was an absolute joy to be with I should say at this stage, I had doctors, lawyers, etc as students and that was humbling in itself.

Now to the bit about it kinda changed the way I look at life.... in the early classes they spoke little English [most in the country for less than 3 months] and came from everwhere China, Croatia, Veitnam and so on... The class room was a computer lab with 16 computers, one for me and I had 15 students... To get the class started I asked every student to say who they were, where they came from , and how they got to Australia... I sobbed at some of their stories and some of their stories are still with me today... in all over four years I taught 75 refuges ...

These may have been hand picked people but the personal value system they had, there work ethic, there honesty, bravery etc, but most of all the stories about why they came and how they got here FARK nay Double FARK... all left their mark on me.

 

[curious]

i don't think labor's comfortable with the asylum seeker issue. i don't think labor's been comfortable with it since 1993, when they first introduced mandatory detention. it's always been the libs' issue because of the *utter bollocks* that conflates boat people with 'border protection', as if we're under some sort of existential threat from poor f**kers in fishing boats running for their lives.

I agree, dibo, but that's my point. We 'claim' to be a tolerant society, we claim to do this and that, but the reality of what we practice and what we are flies in the face of what we prefer to imagine. The language of Border Protection ect. is designed to instigate imaginings of a necessity to fight off the hoards of invaders. I'm extremely disappointed in the labor party deciding to fight the issue by trying to upstage the lib policy. Though my disappointment isn't restricted to this issue alone.

Surely, and i'd take advice on this, they'd be further ahead through retaining 'traditional' labor social values than throwing them out with the bathwater in pandering to the conservative vote. I can't see that public intolerance has changed in over the last four decades as we are still as insular now as we were then with only the targets that have regularly changed. So, what's the present day labor mindset and why?

 

[midfielder]

in pandering to the conservative vote.

Me thinks its a much wider issue than the conservative vote... in many working class areas the feeling are the same... many ALP voters are in the same camp as the conservative voters...

Somehow, somewhere ... maybe Howard started it .... but their is a fear not so much of people coming ... deep down there is as I see it a fear that the wrong people will get in... that our systems of determining or stopping people who will blow up a shopping centre and change our way of life... 911, the train in Spain, and closer to our shores various groups and attacks on western sites ... all have lead this...

The fear and I think that is the right word is the Australia legal system and an assumed lax system of checks and balances means Australia is incapable of stopping the bad people coming ...

Its this lack of faith in our systems that allows people to play with our fears... governments need to convince the public that our systems work... the other fear is the once the door is opened a flood will occur and tens of millions of people will flood across the seas...

So the combined fear of a flood of people and many of them bad people ... creates many easy targets and allows many cheap shots...

 

[dibo]

Jenkins gooooooone.

Slipper does a Colston and replaces him.

Craig Thompson starts feeling his collar tighten all of a sudden.

 

[Nathan Byrn]

Brilliant political move!

 

[hasbeen]

The best example yet of Labor putting the Slipper in. The backroom-boys at Labor HQ have been busy haven't they?
Not only would Thompson be feeling uneasy, but the Independents just lost a fair bit of clout. What I'm really surprised at is the lengths Gillard will go to, to remain PM, despite all the polls showing she is despised (and that really is saying something when the Opposition alternative is Abbot).

 

[dibo]

She will win the next election.

 

[hasbeen]

Only if Abbot is still the Oppo leader ...

 

[Nathan Byrn]

She will win the next election.

Wanna have a small wager on that!

 

[dibo]

Wanna have a small wager on that!

Fifty bucks.

 

[dibo]

Wanna have a small wager on that!

I've got a better idea. I'll put fifty bucks on at the TAB, and that way I get the juicy odds.

 

[midfielder]

Who wins the next election ... who knows ...

But a thumps up for pinko Julia and thumps down to jack boots Tony ... re the mining tax...

Read my comments re the carbon tax and I am a non climate believer to whatever... I still hold IMO climate change will be solved by rewards for discovery rather than a tax where in a world balance nothing changes as the carbon pollution moves off shore...

But in the mining tax Jack Boots has got it wrong .. Pinko is right and we need to get some funds from these taxes and do something with them... Alas I can not agree with how the tax is being spent IMO it should go into building roads, railway lines etc...

Jack Boots has let Pinko slip under his guard ...

 

[dibo]

Can we get a glossary of all your nicknames? They are many and varied and often completely unrelated to anything outside your bonce.

 

[midfielder]

Seems like Kevin 07 could be the next PM if the papers are right....

 

[Nathan Byrn]

You still want that bet Dibo?
If the POlls are anything to go by she is gone.

 

[dibo]

The next election is 18 months away. Abbott only needs five minutes to f**k himself up. Abbott winning would hurt more than the loss of $50.

 

[midfielder]

Wonders aloud what effect Peter Slipper is and will have ...............