• Join ccmfans.net

    ccmfans.net is the Central Coast Mariners fan community, and was formed in 2004, so basically the beginning of time for the Mariners. Things have changed a lot over the years, but one thing has remained constant and that is our love of the Mariners. People come and go, some like to post a lot and others just like to read. It's up to you how you participate in the community!

    If you want to get rid of this message, simply click on Join Now or head over to https://www.ccmfans.net/community/register/ to join the community! It only takes a few minutes, and joining will let you post your thoughts and opinions on all things Mariners, Football, and whatever else pops into your mind. If posting is not your thing, you can interact in other ways, including voting on polls, and unlock options only available to community members.

    ccmfans.net is not only for Mariners fans either. Most of us are bonded by our support for the Mariners, but if you are a fan of another club (except the Scum, come on, we need some standards), feel free to join and get into some banter.

The age of mediocrity is now

Ironbark

Well-Known Member
Sitting at home sick, so very long post warning.

Good point Tevor. And honestly, I think it's more likely than not. We know Monty and co have gotten their share of signings wrong too and last year just without Cummings we would have had a mediocre season. Take out Silvera as well... We wouldn't have even made finals. Take out Nectar and Beni... who knows where we'd have finished.

Maybe I'm a fool, but for some reason I still believe that Alou has it in him. But time is running out fast. If no one steps up and starts finding the net, then we will suffer until we get reinforcements and it seems plenty of fans are going to blame Jackson even though he's obviously come in last minute and it's not his squad. Actually makes me a bit glad it wasn't Ben Cahn. May have been an impossible hill to climb that would have stalled his otherwise promising career. Of course everyone wants the gig. But hard time to take over.

I do hate this position though. Because if Jackson truly is shit, it does mean that we are at risk of enduring a relatively poor season under him, but not until a little over a year from now when Jackson has built his own squad and had a proper pre season, will we be able to be sure that he's genuinely shit and sack him. Like the Moss era when he was running on Arnie's fumes for a while.

So in the interim. I'm bracing, but I'm still determined to try to see and things as clearly as I can. Quite a few people have been decrying the tactics and the coaching, but largely the only substantiation I've heard is that players are not playing well enough. That 'could' be a result of bad coaching. But it's not in itself hard evidence of bad coaching - especially when what we're seeing is issues in a specific area and the players playing in that area are either new recruits the last coach signed or our bench players previously.

We're fans, we all love to talk shape and selections and play football manager. But unless you're privvy to all the trainings and convos, most things are pretty hard to tell when it comes to specifically apportioning blame. You don't know if players are not really being coached, being mis-coached, simply in poor form, just not good enough or simply undertaking something new and just need a bit more time.

Putting shape, broader game management strategies or a coaches given philosophy/system aside. If I made a by no means comprehensive check list off the top of my head, even the more likely indications of shit coaching have to be consistently displayed by a team to be able to reliably suggest it has to be a result of bad coaching...

- being dominated in possession
- losing the midfield
- poor territory / low entries into opponents final third
- unable to play out
- turn overs & unforced errors
- failure to create chances
- too much space between the lines
- failure to slide, mark or track back
- poor positioning - by unit or collectively
- poor timing of movement - be it stepping up or second waves into the box
- poor communication
- unorganised defensive line
- regularly conceding from set pieces
- failure to tackle or force turn overs
- not contesting or winning second balls
- lack of intelligent movement off the ball and runs
- slow ball movement
- poor link play
- lack of effort
- lack of confidence
- lack of concentration
- lack of belief
- lack of discipline
- obvious team disharmony
- poor team selection
- poor substitutions
- poor recruitment
- wrong tactical response
- slow tactical response
- no tactical response
- tactical inflexibility

I'm willing to put defensive lapses aside for now, as we all know it's a given that some brain farts at the back are par the course with our money ball and youth policy. From the above list, I personally haven't seen all that much yet that shouts out that it's clearly Jackson who's responsible for our short comings. Conversely, as a few others have tried to say, if you watch the games objectively like a neutral, we've actually been ticking quite a few of the boxes and it's been pretty bloody clear what hasn't been working.

Now maybe Jackson is handling his attackers poorly in training and or telling them the wrong things, but if so, despite it, they've still all had plenty of chances to shine in games and or get the win for us but they simply have not taken their moments.

Why? Well, it's always a hard job. And right now? Loss of Monty would have hurt them no doubt. JC and co have also just cast a pretty damn big shadow which may be affecting them. But whatever it is, what's most worrying and costly right now is our decision making/final ball and goal scoring. Further compromised by our lack of attacking depth, heavier schedule and ever present budget limitations.

I agree with calling out our attack. So the only marks against Jackson for me so far, and tbf he has to work with the squad he has, has been a couple of selections. Wilson over Theo... but so many doubters of Theo on here that would have surely made the same error. Storm over Doka. But was Storm fit? I'd take Hall over Paull. But there's probably not a real lot in it...

BUT... the big inescapable argument against that places all and any consideration above aside, is that he is now 3 losses from 3. It's not remotely the full picture, so it would be completely unfair not to contextualise it. But if we're winless in 6. Context doesn't matter. The battle is now becoming massive mentally for players, coaches and fans, et al. So like anyone else, rightly or wrongly, even just for morale, I think he would have to go.

But for mine we're not there yet... and there's still some hope. But it does mean Alou, Torres, Tulio, and DWH must come good. And I think he knows that. Hence his comments. Because he doesn't have any other options. Reec, Wilson or even Di Pizio are not going to save our season.
Thorough post - and agree

Reading through your list of bad coaching clues - we really are doing most of these things ok, and sometimes quite well. This is also why I'm not panicking yet. This coach barely knows his players yet and is clearly learning. But you only really get to learn their true strengths, weaknesses and limits in the forge of game time unfortunately
 

Ben10

Well-Known Member
Sitting at home sick, so very long post warning.

Good point Tevor. And honestly, I think it's more likely than not. We know Monty and co have gotten their share of signings wrong too and last year just without Cummings we would have had a mediocre season. Take out Silvera as well... We wouldn't have even made finals. Take out Nectar and Beni... who knows where we'd have finished.

Maybe I'm a fool, but for some reason I still believe that Alou has it in him. But time is running out fast. If no one steps up and starts finding the net, then we will suffer until we get reinforcements and it seems plenty of fans are going to blame Jackson even though he's obviously come in last minute and it's not his squad. Actually makes me a bit glad it wasn't Ben Cahn. May have been an impossible hill to climb that would have stalled his otherwise promising career. Of course everyone wants the gig. But hard time to take over.

I do hate this position though. Because if Jackson truly is shit, it does mean that we are at risk of enduring a relatively poor season under him, but not until a little over a year from now when Jackson has built his own squad and had a proper pre season, will we be able to be sure that he's genuinely shit and sack him. Like the Moss era when he was running on Arnie's fumes for a while.

So in the interim. I'm bracing, but I'm still determined to try to see and things as clearly as I can. Quite a few people have been decrying the tactics and the coaching, but largely the only substantiation I've heard is that players are not playing well enough. That 'could' be a result of bad coaching. But it's not in itself hard evidence of bad coaching - especially when what we're seeing is issues in a specific area and the players playing in that area are either new recruits the last coach signed or our bench players previously.

We're fans, we all love to talk shape and selections and play football manager. But unless you're privvy to all the trainings and convos, most things are pretty hard to tell when it comes to specifically apportioning blame. You don't know if players are not really being coached, being mis-coached, simply in poor form, just not good enough or simply undertaking something new and just need a bit more time.

Putting shape, broader game management strategies or a coaches given philosophy/system aside. If I made a by no means comprehensive check list off the top of my head, even the more likely indications of shit coaching have to be consistently displayed by a team to be able to reliably suggest it has to be a result of bad coaching...

- being dominated in possession
- losing the midfield
- poor territory / low entries into opponents final third
- unable to play out
- turn overs & unforced errors
- failure to create chances
- too much space between the lines
- failure to slide, mark or track back
- poor positioning - by unit or collectively
- poor timing of movement - be it stepping up or second waves into the box
- poor communication
- unorganised defensive line
- regularly conceding from set pieces
- failure to tackle or force turn overs
- not contesting or winning second balls
- lack of intelligent movement off the ball and runs
- slow ball movement
- poor link play
- lack of effort
- lack of confidence
- lack of concentration
- lack of belief
- lack of discipline
- obvious team disharmony
- poor team selection
- poor substitutions
- poor recruitment
- wrong tactical response
- slow tactical response
- no tactical response
- tactical inflexibility

I'm willing to put defensive lapses aside for now, as we all know it's a given that some brain farts at the back are par the course with our money ball and youth policy. From the above list, I personally haven't seen all that much yet that shouts out that it's clearly Jackson who's responsible for our short comings. Conversely, as a few others have tried to say, if you watch the games objectively like a neutral, we've actually been ticking quite a few of the boxes and it's been pretty bloody clear what hasn't been working.

Now maybe Jackson is handling his attackers poorly in training and or telling them the wrong things, but if so, despite it, they've still all had plenty of chances to shine in games and or get the win for us but they simply have not taken their moments.

Why? Well, it's always a hard job. And right now? Loss of Monty would have hurt them no doubt. JC and co have also just cast a pretty damn big shadow which may be affecting them. But whatever it is, what's most worrying and costly right now is our decision making/final ball and goal scoring. Further compromised by our lack of attacking depth, heavier schedule and ever present budget limitations.

I agree with calling out our attack. So the only marks against Jackson for me so far, and tbf he has to work with the squad he has, has been a couple of selections. Wilson over Theo... but so many doubters of Theo on here that would have surely made the same error. Storm over Doka. But was Storm fit? I'd take Hall over Paull. But there's probably not a real lot in it...

BUT... the big inescapable argument against that places all and any consideration above aside, is that he is now 3 losses from 3. It's not remotely the full picture, so it would be completely unfair not to contextualise it. But if we're winless in 6. Context doesn't matter. The battle is now becoming massive mentally for players, coaches and fans, et al. So like anyone else, rightly or wrongly, even just for morale, I think he would have to go.

But for mine we're not there yet... and there's still some hope. But it does mean Alou, Torres, Tulio, and DWH must come good. And I think he knows that. Hence his comments. Because he doesn't have any other options. Reec, Wilson or even Di Pizio are not going to save our season.
Thanks for posting, long but good read.

I also think Kuol has it in him but he needs game time and patience. I thought he did quite well when he come on for the second half. He held the ball up and linked up play much better than DWH did. I really believe come mid season he's gonna start banging them in but the fans and coach need to give him that time
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting, long but good read.

I also think Kuol has it in him but he needs game time and patience. I thought he did quite well when he come on for the second half. He held the ball up and linked up play much better than DWH did. I really believe come mid season he's gonna start banging them in but the fans and coach need to give him that time
The turnovers are happening high up the field against defences that are already there. This negates a lot of Alou speed advantage. It's fine if he is forcing the turnover but otherwise there is little room for him to run into space.

Last season we would break with pace from the back - ideal for Kuol.
 

Insertnamehere

Well-Known Member
The turnovers are happening high up the field against defences that are already there. This negates a lot of Alou speed advantage. It's fine if he is forcing the turnover but otherwise there is little room for him to run into space.

Last season we would break with pace from the back - ideal for Kuol.
Something we did well last year was counter attacking quickly. But if that didn't result in a shot we'd then recycle the ball and work towards building something in the final third.

We aren't doing either well atm and its wasting our prize assets in Tulio and Alou.
 

Big Al

Well-Known Member
This is actually debatable at the moment. Scott Barlow, the owner, is going through a divorce at the moment and will lose his cash cow billionaire father-in-law.

He is currently putting some of his property up for sale.
Is that why they have changed there tune this year and playing their youth which is the right thing to do when you have a crop of them as good as they do. They are missing a decent midfielder to elevate them. I think Bratton is just starting to decline but with another quality midfielder he wouldn’t be as exposed
 

Corsair

Well-Known Member
Reality is I'm incredibly frustrated as are many other fans that we have held up our end for years and finally get our moment in the sun after such a long wait, to then watch the club gut the team and we go to shit just like last time we were Champions.

At the heart of it all is the A League is financially poor and not worth investing in. Money talks and we ain't got none.

We've got largely inexperienced players, apart from 4 or 5 even our longest serving are young fellas with only A-league experience. Such is our lot without a wealthy patron.

We've hired a foreign Manager with very little first team management experience and what he has got was with a side that got relegated.

The manager has brought in a croney as assistant who hasn't even been officially announced and also has a poor track record as a Manager.

We've got young players being criticised openly in the media.

I have no idea how we recover from this position, big hill ahead.

Imagine if Bali put us to the knife.

I really hope Niz, Max, Faz, Tulio and Kuol link up and start to save our season. We've got some great players who can do it despite the situation, if they work together.

There isn't a huge wad of cash coming in Jan for players. If Mark Jackson is depending on that or planning to use its abscence as his excuse, may as well take a walk now.

Enough excuses about not picking the squad and criticizing players, you're the manager, take responsibility and do your job. Coach the team where they need it, protect them publicly, be a leader. The Manager's job is to get the best out of the club's players and the current approach is not doing that. This team is better than these performances.

Among others, we've all seen Alou play with confidence and bang goals, he's got it in him with the right support and encouragement.

COYY
 
Last edited:

Corsair

Well-Known Member
Having respect and liking the coaching and having the ability to do what the coach wants on the pitch are different things.
If your players are not delivering using your strategy it might be time to try a different strategy.

If we don't have a strong enough defence to support a high press or that press is smothering the goal scorers space and they're standing on each other's toes, then try something else.
 

Online statistics

Members online
34
Guests online
710
Total visitors
744

Forum statistics

Threads
6,742
Messages
383,813
Members
2,715
Latest member
ForzaFred
Top